Interview: 'Filmspotting' co-founders Adam Kempenaar and Sam Van Hallgren
In July 2005, my tech-savvy dad told me about something called “podcasts” that Apple had recently added to iTunes. I don’t remember which topics/categories were available at that time — I think mostly news services — but I vividly recall clicking over to the Movies section and seeing a program called “Cinecast.” I’d recently watched Batman Begins, which was the focus of the show’s most recent episode, so I downloaded the episode and listened to a lively and enlightening conversation about the film between Chicago-based critics Adam Kempenaar and Sam Van Hallgren.
Nearly 20 years later — its precise two-decade anniversary is March 5 — and almost 19 years since it was renamed “Filmspotting,” the show recently celebrated its 1,000th episode with Kempenaar and Josh Larsen (who’s co-hosted since 2012) on the mics and Van Hallgren working behind the scenes as the show’s producer (his role since Fall 2010 after ending his co-host tenure in August 2007) alongside "Golden" Joe DeCeault.
And this weekend, an even bigger celebration will occur. Friday, Feb. 28-Sunday, March 2, listeners, fellow critics, and even filmmakers Rian Johnson and Kogonada will head to Chicago for Filmspotting Fest, during which six films that have proven key to the show’s history — Brick, Tangerine, Pather Panchali, Take Shelter, Columbus, and Before Sunrise — will be screened at the Gene Siskel Film Center and the Music Box Theatre.
A week before the festivities begin, Asheville Movies spoke with Kempenaar and Van Hallgren about the show’s early days, organically connecting with filmmakers they admire, and the weekly sacrifices of producing a podcast.
Edwin Arnaudin: I know Sam lived in Davidson for a little bit, and I recall at least one Adam visit to Atlanta during the hockey days. [Kempenaar was the VP of Marketing & Content for the Chicago Blackhawks for 20 years, during which he produced and hosted the first podcast in professional sports history.] But have you ever been to Asheville?
Adam Kempenaar: I wish.
Sam Van Hallgren: I've been there. When we lived in Davidson, we got out there because I was working for a classical radio station, WDAV, and we covered the Brevard Music [Center’s Summer] Festival out in Brevard, which is in the mountains in the Asheville area. And we definitely did some overnights in Asheville. It was the kind of place where, when I visited, I was like, “Why didn't I know this place existed when I was applying for colleges?” It felt like paradise. I mean, up there on the mountains, great college town, great…what's the pizza place? The Mushroom?
EA: Mellow Mushrooom.
SVH: Mellow Mushroom! Yeah, what a gorgeous spot. So, definitely an admirer.
EA: Very cool. Yeah, I'm actually a Brevard native and my parents still live there.
SVH: Oh!
EA: And I worked one summer at the Music Center doing maintenance stuff, so I’m very familiar with that festival.
SVH: Very cool.
EA: Well, let's go back to the “Cinecast” days. What were y'all's initial goals that you set for the show? Or was it that official?
SVH: There were goals, Adam.
AK: Were there?
SVH: Yeah, it was to watch a movie a week.
AK: That was it.
SVH: That was the goal. (laughs)
AK: I mean, honestly, that really is it, Edwin. And I still talk about this sometimes with my podcasting students [at the University of Iowa] and other folks — if I do any consulting, I try to tell them that you have to be in this for a reason that is something other than fame and fortune and lots of listeners.
And, of course, at the time we were starting, podcasting wasn't a thing, really. It wasn't an industry at all. It truly was a case where we needed a mechanism; something formal that — I was going to say “forced,” but — that allowed the two of us to watch at least one movie a week. That was the plan when we started, and then to have a forum to talk about it.
And it really was more about us having a forum to talk about with each other, and I guess we were ambitious enough, or needy enough — at least I was — that we didn't just want, you know, seven people to listen to it or our friends and family. We knew that was what it was going to be initially, but we hoped it would grow. And we thought that if we did a thoughtful show that had structure and had good audio quality and hopefully we were bringing some insight and personality to it, who knows? Maybe we would get an audience — we would find an audience. That was kind of our thought. But I don't recall us ever making an actual sort of business goal or anything like that. It really was just, “We're going to be committed to treating this like a job, even if no one's listening. But it's really about us just being able to have a conversation.”
From left, frequent “Filmspotting” guest Michael Phillips, co-host Josh Larsen, and co-host Adam Kempenaar
SVH: It was also just the interest in this new medium. I don't know if the democratization of media was necessarily on our mind, but it was right there at our fingertips. And both Adam and I at that point had had experience in radio, so it was a familiar approach — not just as listeners, but Adam had worked at the college radio station [KRUI 89.7 FM in Iowa City]. I was, at that time, working at WBEZ in Chicago.
We were coming from radio worlds where the idea of having a product we would be proud of, proud to share with the people that we knew, the people that I worked with, the people that Adam previously worked with — so there was a standard. Even if we didn't talk about it, we went into it with the same idea. It wasn't just flipping on a mic and having a conversation. Although that first episode is not unlike that. But there is a structure. We went into it with a structure. There was a script from the beginning.
But ultimately, what motivated it was some rigor attached to watching movies. There was a sense of maybe missing a little bit of that collegiate rigor: “What's the point of all this?” Sure, I can go to the movies every week, but I'd contributed to Adam's movie blog over the previous couple of years, and there was a sense of, “I want this to be meaningful — this time I'm spending — and I want somewhere for my thoughts to go with these experiences.”
And immediately, the magic of it was that when we flipped on that mic — and you'll appreciate what I'm going to say right now, Edwin — is that it mattered. We were talking about Be Cool. We were talking about a really poor sequel to an incredible film, Get Shorty, but it mattered. That conversation mattered to the both of us. And so that was the exciting thing that we could not have anticipated from any of our previous collaborations or our friendship and getting together and chatting for a beer. That was really unexpected and special, and ultimately you have to credit with the fact that we were able to develop any audience at all in addition to being one of the only podcasts in existence at that time. (laughs)
AK: The word clearly Sam is trying not to use is “stakes,” [an oft-used term from the show’s Kempenaar/Van Hallgren days] but he really wants to.
SVH: Didn’t I say “stakes”? Oh, I thought I did.
AK: He can only use it, like, once a conversation — once every 30 minutes.
SVH: (laughs) I’m drinking [water] because I said “stakes.”
AK: I suppose we needed some stakes to our movie watching, even if it was just to be for fun. But the one thing I quickly wanted to add is we certainly never used a word, ever, like “democratization.” But I do very vividly remember, not too long before we started the podcast, reaching out to WGN and WBEZ becauseI had done this show [Burn Hollywood Burn] at the University of Iowa as a grad student that I thought was pretty good. And I felt like I had things to say, and I had this blog and I knew it was not going to go anywhere, but I still felt like, “Who knows? Maybe you'll catch someone on a day where you just get on their radar and you say, ‘Hey, I know you sometimes talk about film and I talk about film. So, if you ever need someone to get on the airwaves and talk about film, here I am.’”
I knew it was ridiculous. I still did it. Thinking back on it, it’s even more absurd — like WGN would grab me, some random guy that they've never heard of, and put me on the air. And so what really did appeal to me about this was the fact that we don't need any gatekeepers. We, could just go right to the audience. We control our destiny here. We make this show and at the end of the day, if it's good, then people will listen — hopefully. If it's not good, then people won't listen, but we tried it and we didn't need anybody else to make it happen.
EA: When did you know you were on to something and that the show was connecting with listeners?
SVH: The first couple of episodes, Adam and I sent email blasts out to everyone we knew, explained what a podcast was in the first paragraph…
AK: Yes.
SVH: Secondly, sent a link to the RSS feed that they would have to click and listen to in their web browser or download to their iPod, I guess. Could they do that back then?
EA: Oh yes.
SVH: But there were directories. and at some point the number of downloads barely exceeded the number of people that we knew. And we were talking, you know, in the high 10s of people — 90, but [then] a couple hundred. And then you can track where people are listening. I always shout out Magnus from Berlin…
AK: Yeah, who doesn't listen anymore. (laughs)
SVH: At some point, he tired of our shenanigans. We lost Magnus from Berlin. But there was a sense of — I mean, I don't remember the tipping point, exactly, but it certainly was a number. It was a number of downloads, whatever that meant back then. And also, I don't know if you've gone back into the archives, Adam, in terms of when we started getting unsolicited emails from people that we did not know.
AK: It was somewhere in the 5-10 range, episode-wise, where we finally started to hear from some people we didn't know, saying, “I'm listening to the show.” I'm sure I can go into the email bag and find those moments where I got an email, forwarded it to Sam: “Here's some random person listening to it!”
SVH: (laughs)
AK: But I remember on the old “Cinecast” blog website, we had a feed burner which published our feed and it had a running tally of how many subscribers to your feed you had. So, it wasn't even downloads then, so much. It was by feed subscribers. And I think I remember feeling, when we got into the couple hundreds, I was like, “OK, that's legitimate. This may have some legs. It might continue to grow.”
Of course, the real tipping point was Episode 18 [Batman Begins] when iTunes [Podcasts] launched, and all of a sudden the website crashes, and we're on the main page of Apple iTunes and all these people are trying to access the show, and I'm up at 4 a.m. calling our web host in, like, Belarus — I'm not kidding,
SVH: Oh wow!
AK: Because I was paying for the cheapest package possible at the time. And it had crashed and nobody could access our show. And we're just sitting there on the main page of iTunes and no people are trying to download it. They can't listen to us. It was so frustrating. Fortunately, that was resolved, but that was the big tipping point.
Josh Larsen and Adam Kempenaar
EA: I'm impressed every week that the show comes out and that it's been coming out for this long — partly because I know a little bit about your personal lives and how busy you are. But what do you sacrifice to make time for the show each week?
SVH: Hmm…
AK: Yeah. (laughs) So much.
SVH: I mean, early on — we didn't realize it at the time: we had more time. There were children, [but] they were smaller, they had bedtimes. And our job responsibilities were much more flexible. So it didn't feel — and again, this may be misremembering — but it didn't feel so much like we were sacrificing.
The thing I remember is just that because it was a steady state of growth for those first couple of years, there was a real excitement for us to be doing it. And our lives were crazy. I met my wife [Carrie] within the same month of “Filmspotting” starting. It was an exciting part of our life. Adam had a young child, had a new job that was really challenging and exciting. It's a part of your life when you're in your late 20s, everything seems to be happening, and so it was less about sacrificing and more about fitting it all in.
There seemed to be enough justification for the time we were taking. I guess that was it, because there was this sense of growth. If we'd had to go a year where we were the first couple of months, then it might have been a little harder to justify as our careers became more demanding, our family lives became more demanding. But by the time it got really tough — and Adam can maybe speak to this because it's been especially especially tough for him in terms of how we managed to juggle everything — we started to see enough of a financial return. I mean, I don't want to bring money into this, but there was enough where it helped justify the project.
AK: Yeah, that’s a good point. (laughs) When it becomes solvent, it's at least paying for itself and putting a little bit of money in our pockets so that we can justify the time — that does help. You can't overlook that.
I'll say, Edwin, we're probably bad at remembering some of this stuff because I think the secret to…
SVH: We should thank our wives, basically, is what we should be doing. (laughs)
AK: That is the truth. I would not let [my wife] Sarah [Kempenaar] get on this call. You would not want her to hear the truth, her feelings about “Filmspotting.” (laughs)
EA: (laughs) She can talk off the record.
AK: She's allowed me to do it for 20 years. But I think, honestly, the secret to the show in some ways is just, because it's a weekly show and it is demanding — because we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to turn out a good show, in addition to all the other things we have going on — we don't spend a lot of time looking back. (laughs) We're having conversations like this now that are fun, but otherwise I don't listen to episodes ever, even after they publish. Occasionally I will. There are occasions where, for whatever reason, I kind of want to listen back to a review.
SVH: Well, you use to have to because we, of course, used to edit the shows (laughs) in addition to recording them.
AK: Right. So, yes, there was a span of time — well, from 2005 until ’11 or ’10 where I had to record and edit the show. So, yes, I heard everything. (laughs) But for the past 10 years plus, I tend to not even listen to them because it really is just a case where it's like, “That's now out into the world. I'm not going to beat myself up over things I might have said that were not as smart as I hoped they were.” If we do get negative listener feedback, I'll engage with it or respond. That's part of it. But I'm just saying: I'm not going to try to beat myself up over it too much. I’ve got another show to produce. I’ve got to worry about what movies I'm going to watch for next week and what I might say about them.
And there is the part, as Sam noted, it is a business now and I run the business side of it. So that means I'm responsible for everything that goes into it. In addition to what you hear on air, I'm responsible for making sure all the bills get paid and the sponsorship invoices and managing those types of things — all the logistical things that go into running the business. I’ve got to make sure right now that everybody gets their tax forms. I'm not the accountant, but I am the accountant. And I'm doing the accounting every month — I’ve got to balance the book. That’s just all part of it and I try to just focus on the next episode as much as I can.
But you take a day like — I'll just give you a quick example: Yesterday was Tuesday. We recorded a show at 7:30[p.m.], and that involved watching two films for preparation. I didn't get to one of them until Monday night and, you know, I'm exhausted by the time I get the kids to bed and I've had a day of work, but I got to watch the film at 9:30.
And then the next day, Tuesday, I had work most of the day. And then when I had a free time in the afternoon, I basically spent from about 1:30 until recording time watching another film, taking my notes, and then also doing all the prep I needed to do — going over any of our script documents that we use, putting together my thoughts about the film, assembling all those. And, unfortunately, that means when my wife is trying to cook dinner and, yeah, we have a couple of kids running around on Tuesdays anyway, I'm kind of MIA. I'm definitely not Dad of the Year on Tuesdays.
EA: Thanks for sharing. So, moving to the future [*said like John Huston’s Noah Cross in Chinatown], how far in advance did y'all start planning Filmspotting Fest?
SVH: 2005, Adam? Wasn’t it 2005? (laughs)
AK: (laughs) Yes, 2005. Good answer.
That is the right answer because we did talk about it. We joked about it, like, “Someday…” — it was a little bit of that thing where it was like, “Wouldn't it be cool if we could do a live recording or do something at the Music Box?” That was the dream at the time. And we talked about a fest — a day-long thing or whatever. It's sort of a fantasy. But I would say we knew, obviously, that episode 1,000 and our 20-year anniversary were going to coincide, and we decided maybe back in October, November [2024] — we started talking about it probably even six or seven months ago. That doesn't mean we knew what we were going to do or we had any concrete plans, but we did start going like, “If we're going to do something big, we do have to get ahead of this a little more than we usually do.” And I would say probably around October, somewhere in there, we knew that we wanted to do a fest.
Actually, now I think about it, I was talking to the Siskel and Music Box back in the summer. So it goes back even further. We did get ahead of it a little bit. I was talking to them in the summer because we had to get on their radar and make sure the theaters were available and stuff like that. And there was enough time to plan.
SVH: Then it was coming up with the titles once the venues got secured and they were on board. It was figuring out what a weekend should look like — “What is the best representation of the show and its 20 years?” And figuring out a Marathon title, a Golden Brick [Award winner, given annually to an under-seen film from an emerging director]. Trying to decide what six titles might best represent it, and then working with the venues to see what makes sense for them.
Brick always made sense. (laughs)
AK: (laughs) Yeah, we knew Brick was going to be on the agenda.
EA: (laughs) I think it’s a great collection of achieving that goal and really touching on these cornerstone films. When I saw the list, it was like, “Yeah, of course. Of course those are the films.”
AK: Well, that's what we were going for, so that's good to hear. We wanted people to go, “OK, that feels like ‘Filmspotting.’”
EA: And then another component of it — obviously, the great collaborations over the years with fellow critics [Matt Singer, Dana Stevens, Scott Tobias, and Alison Willmore will participate in post-screening discussions at Filmspotting Fest], but then these relationships that you've formed with filmmakers that are big names now. But when you originally engaged them, they weren't exactly household names. So, what is the significance of having Rian Johnson and Koganada be part of the celebration with y'all?
AK: We just respect them and their work so much. And they both — especially Rian, going back to at least 2006 — they’ve just been an integral part of the show. And I think what that part is is, specifically, this idea of discovery, which has always been at the core of the show. I mean, at the end of the day, when we talk about Sam and I saying we want to start the show and we want to have an excuse to watch movies and talk about them, what that really is is we want an exchange of ideas and we want to learn new things and we want to see new films. We want to encounter art and we want to learn things from each other. That's the fun of the show.
And so they both really represent that in being filmmakers that, when they got on our radar, they were new filmmakers. They were not part of any kind of canon — though that was important to us, too. They were brand new filmmakers who were making something we thought was really exciting, and that it comes out of that authenticity of just having that genuinely passionate reaction to their work and expressing that.
We, I suppose, got in contact with Rian at a time where he was a new filmmaker. And he just has such personality and is so easygoing and personable that he was open to that. He's such a movie fan that he enjoyed being part of those conversations. His life got a little busier (laughs) once Star Wars hit, right?
And I'll just say about Kogonada, too — I wouldn't claim that I know either of them extremely well. Kogonada, I know less than Rian. I've had fewer interactions with him for a shorter amount of time. But the two or three times that we have encountered each other, when I've interviewed him, we just both, it turns out — I mean, I feel so good about this. It's validating for me — that he had great experiences during those conversations.
So, it goes back a little bit, I suppose, to that idea of credibility, where when you have filmmakers like that of their abilities, of their stature, of their thoughtfulness and insight — if they enjoy talking to us, that feels like we must be doing something right. And so they were the first two people we had in mind [for Filmspotting Fest] right from the very beginning.
SVH: Rian in particular is maybe a unique case where he seemed to, I think, genuinely enjoy not just conversations with folks like us and other critics, but really seemed to not put up any walls there — meaning he was interested in engaging in the critical process.
The thing about these two as well, and there are others, is — the word we always used (laughs) to describe Koganada and Rian: “He's just a good dude.” He's just remained a really solid, grounded dude who loves what he does, has a sense of humility about his opportunities. And our relationship with him goes back to engaging with our very sincere interest in his work and his perspective. I think we had him on early on, not just to talk about his film, but to do a Top 5 — like a “‘Filmspotting’ University” [described in the show notes for Episode #120 as “the five films Adam, Sam and special guest Rian Johnson want every young filmmaker to see]. So, this was a guy that was just Interested in the whole experience and obviously a film lover, and we're lucky to have intersected with them at that time. I see that, too. It was a chance of timing where he was at and where we were at.
EA: Yes, it's very genuine. And I think the whole 20 years and the whole celebration, it's all very genuine and representative of the great work y'all have been doing. And it's been really fun to be along for the ride for almost the whole time. Thank you so much for all the work you put into it — and for being good dudes.
SVH: (laughs)
AK: (laughs)
EA: For being there for us annoying listeners, too. It's been a blast.
SVH: Well, the thing you didn't cue us to talk about and the fourth wheel — if it's me and Adam and Josh that are driving this car, the fourth wheel are the listeners that have impacted this show immeasurably. It is not the same show it was in 2005, almost entirely because of the relationships. If we’re lucky to have a relationship with somebody like Rian, we are even more lucky to have a relationship with hundreds — definitely hundreds of core listeners over the last 20 years that have changed our lives, changed the the scope of the show. And that's a really important part of our story — the listeners that have made it part of their lives.
So thank you, Edwin.
AK: Yeah, thank you!
EA: It’s a pleasure! And I tried to make it work to get to the fest, but I’m not able to attend.
AK: Oh, bummer.
EA: But I am doing something pretty cool that Friday, actually, that's sort of celebratory adjacent. I'll be hanging out with Take Shelter’s very own Michael Shannon down in Athens, Georgia.
AK: Oh, man…
SVH: Is he doing his R.E.M. thing? Is he down there?
AK: That’s why he couldn’t be at our fest! (laughs) We were going to try to get him for Take Shelter, but he had a gig.
EA: I mean, Chicago makes sense. Yeah, if he didn't have to go hang out with R.E.M. They “reunited” when I was there last year and I was sitting behind Michael Stipe the whole time.
SVH: No way! I didn't realize they were going to these shows. Wow!
EA: It was surreal, just watching him react in real time to someone covering his songs. Sometimes he'd be rocking along and sometimes he'd be, like, shaking his head.
SVH: (laughs) Wow!
AK: Nice.
SVH: Oh, enjoy that. I’m jealous.
(Photos courtesy of Filmspotting)
